My Newest Wheel/Tire Predicament 

"Luken10" (luken10) 09/28/2016 at 14:14 • Filed to: Wheels, Tires

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I’m looking to buy some new sticky rubber for my car and I can’t stop thinking about trying out Federal’s lineup. The price is extremely appealing to me. My predicament is that the RSR-RR (grippier of the two) doesn’t come in 16 inch sizes! Now I’m on the hunt for the best solution. Anyone with any experience with Federal Tires, or the difference between wheel sizes please chime in. I will be using these mainly for spirited driving, and an occasional autox/track day. I have a second DD set of wheels + tires.

I am trying to find a set of used 17" NC Miata wheels. They are about a pound heavier than my stock 16's, and of course the tire will be slightly heavier too. However, this way I can run the RSR-RR. From my research, turn in will also be better because of a smaller sidewall.

Would I be fine just installing the RSR-R on the 17" wheel? Should I go all out with the RSR-RR? Should I just get the RSR-R for my stock 16" wheels? I am having a hard time deciding between grip/turn in characteristics/weight.

*It seems everyone selling NC Miata wheels on craigslist is a chopshop or a dingus. There are Mazdaspeed Protege 17" wheels from a good seller, but they weight 22lbs! Stock 16" are 16lbs and Miata 17" are 17lbs. Would 5 extra pounds be worth it in unsprung weight just for a grippier tire?

**Also, for those of you who might be curious why I am considering a second rate tire brand, here is how much they would cost me.

16" RSR-R are $305 for 4.

17" RSR-R are $342

17" RSR-RR are $406

crowmolly > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 14:18

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I’d go to the 17s, since you kind of “need” them now and they afford you the ability to run 17" tires in the future. 16" stuff seems to be kind of on the way out.

Luken10 > crowmolly 09/28/2016 at 14:24

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This is kind of my thought process right now. However, I know i don’t NEED them, so I’m hesitant unless there are some substantial improvements to be had.

random001 > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 14:29

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Michelin Pilot Super Sports

Luken10 > random001 09/28/2016 at 14:46

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As much as I would like to try this famed tire, they are just too expensive for my budget right now. I have a second set of all season tires I use for DD duty. The grip tire doesn’t have to be super fancy.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 14:52

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The unsprung weight is a good trade-off for grippier tires.

RS3's. Grip for days and pretty cheap

nafsucof > random001 09/28/2016 at 14:55

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Not sticky tires.

nafsucof > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 14:57

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Re71r from Bridgestone is an awesomely sticky tire. There is a new nexen tire that is also 200 treadwear. It’s an Autocross tire, 225/50-16 is something like $100 tirerack has them.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > random001 09/28/2016 at 15:00

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Decent daily/spirited driver tires, but incredibly over-rated by most owners.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 15:01

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Daily driver tires or track day/autox tires? Or both?

Also, how stiff is your suspension? Getting too grippy of tires on a stock, or fairly close to stock, suspension can change the balance of a car. It might be “faster,” but may not feel the same or as balanced.

96Formula6spd > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 15:04

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Federal tires. About the same grip as the old falkin 615 with half the life. These tires last about 10k tops. They wear about the same as my re71 but are nowhere near as sticky.

What’s your budget? Could help you shop.

RyanFrew > random001 09/28/2016 at 15:06

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I have Super Sports. They’re awesome, but I won’t buy them again. There are much better values out there, especially on a smaller car.

RyanFrew > nafsucof 09/28/2016 at 15:07

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I wouldn’t buy them again, but they’re definitely sticky. I have my inside rear wheel about 3" off the ground in this picture.

nafsucof > RyanFrew 09/28/2016 at 15:15

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Minis and focus will pick up the tire with much less of tires underneith because they are stiff and short. And they are grippy but at 300 tw they have no where near the level of grip of other dot legal sticky tires...re71rs for example at 200 make pss look silly around cones.

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > RyanFrew 09/28/2016 at 15:17

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What are your suggestions? I got a set on sale at Costco and it was under $600 installed for 17" tires.

RyanFrew > nafsucof 09/28/2016 at 15:25

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An RE71r is definitely stickier, but ultimately not a great DD tire. OP needs to clarify whether he’s looking for something for the track, road, or both. I like the PSS for mixed use, but there’s better value out there among other options.

Luken10 > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/28/2016 at 15:27

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These will only be used for spirited driving, and the rare autox + track day. I ran Toyo R888s before and absolutely loved the handling. Understeer pretty much became nonexistent.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > nafsucof 09/28/2016 at 15:31

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But they wear out in 2/3 the time.

finn's arm > random001 09/28/2016 at 15:33

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Federal RSR-R’s are a slight step away from slicks. I wouldn’t even want to drive in the rain on them. Super Sports are good summer tires, but nothing special. The triple 8's are a better tire over them. If I was on a budget, I’d go for two stacks of SportCOMP2's over super sports.

I am Michelin biased. I run Pilot Sport A/S3 on my E36 and mostly Michelin’s on my cars.

finn's arm > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 15:40

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Is the issue the supplier in your area?

Stick with the RSR-R’s on a smaller, lighter wheel. IMO, not worth the extra $40 a tire (in my case for 235/45/17). They’re thick and the same footprint as a 245 Michelin. The 255's are more like a 275.

NC wheels are heavy. Pick up some 6UL’s or whatever is lighter. 5 pounds a corner is not worth it

Shankems > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/28/2016 at 15:41

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Agreed! The Grip to TW rating is good. But ain’t nothing like a REAL sticky tire.

nafsucof > RyanFrew 09/28/2016 at 15:43

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That’s true...for the price I couldn’t justify the pss, but I bet they’d be an awesome summer road trip tire. They’re excellent in rain I know. I dd my re71rs but my commute is a mile.

nafsucof > RyanFrew 09/28/2016 at 15:46

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So in my Autocross club I’m 2nd in dsp behind a guy with a veloster turbo with coilovers and Hoosiers. Even my 71rs are not sticky compared to that guy...

nafsucof > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 09/28/2016 at 15:48

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Mine after 5000 miles and 220ish Autocross runs.. But they feel like twice the grip! And probably wear out in closer to half the time...lol

nafsucof > RyanFrew 09/28/2016 at 15:50

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Too bad the camera man wasn’t on the otherwise of your car!!

random001 > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/28/2016 at 15:54

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I am pretty sure you don’t really know what you’re talking about. I ran them on my Vette, and just got them on my R-Spec. I’d say they are the perfect DD tire. Corvette would agree. They’re not sport cups, but they are amazing.

random001 > nafsucof 09/28/2016 at 15:54

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Eh, they’re pretty damn sticky. Much better driving tires than the mentioned Federals.

random001 > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 15:56

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Point taken. I’d go Potenza RE71 over the federal, but yeah, price.

random001 > RyanFrew 09/28/2016 at 15:57

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I’m not sure I’ll buy anything else after having them on my Z06 and now the R-Spec. The Genesis feels like a completely different car now. Not another DD tire, I mean.

random001 > nafsucof 09/28/2016 at 15:59

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Yes, but the PSS will dominate in the wet. They’re a much better DD tire over the RE71. Guy at works runs the REs on his RX8 and he agrees. But he loves the grip of the Potenza for himself.

random001 > nafsucof 09/28/2016 at 16:00

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Lucky!

random001 > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/28/2016 at 16:02

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Sorry, you may know what you are talking about. That was harsh. I apologize, but I still don’t agree with you.

random001 > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 16:03

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How much are the Feds?

RyanFrew > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 09/28/2016 at 16:19

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Treadwear aside, I’d expect them to heat cycle out even faster.

Luken10 > finn's arm 09/28/2016 at 16:22

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If RSR-R’s are a step away from slicks, how close are RSR-RR’s? From my research neither of them are categorized as a racing tire, even if they might be suitable. The FZ-201 from Federal is what they categorized as a “semi-slick.”

Luken10 > random001 09/28/2016 at 16:24

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16" RSR-R are $305 for 4.

17" RSR-r are $342

17" RSR-RR are $406

VERY tempting

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 16:25

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I don’t know what you have on the car now, but if you have regular A/S now I would just upgrade to some good summer tires like the BF Goodrich g-force sport COMP-2s. They give a stupid amount of grip compared to an A/S and they are very good in the rain/wet (those look like they don’t have nearly as much tread). They are cheap too, like $75 a piece for 15" wheels.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 16:33

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Its not worth it to go to a larger size wheel! First of all, the car will look donked but more importantly, the car will be slower. It is not just the weight that is an issue but rotating a large diameter wheel with the same power will result in a slower car.

Luken10 > random001 09/28/2016 at 16:34

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If I don’t find a set of affordable 17" wheels, getting a more reputable 16" tire might be an option. Those are only $110 each. The video for them on Tire Rack has kind of sold me haha.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > random001 09/28/2016 at 16:35

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And don’t forget treadwear. RE71R are amazing but they will not last very long if you do a lot of driving. I have heard people get decent mileage out of them though all things considered. I just couldnt stomach that for a daily tire but it could be worse.

Luken10 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 09/28/2016 at 16:36

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17's definitely won’t make my car look donked out. Visually I think it’s a nice touch. What you are saying is definitely correct, but I am also curious about how the handling will change with a lower profile tire. I am more concerned about sharp handling than acceleration.

finn's arm > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 16:42

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Sorry, I left an R off on my earlier post - RSR-RR’s are a step away from slicks. They’re heavier too if I remember correctly than the R’s.

A couple of years ago, couple of people I knew had issues with heat cycling on these. They get pretty good wear and price. If I were shopping track tires, these would be near the top.

Luken10 > nafsucof 09/28/2016 at 16:45

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After reading watching the review comparing the bridgestone and the nexen, I would probably shell out a few more dollars per tire for the bridgestone.

Luken10 > RyanFrew 09/28/2016 at 16:47

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Going to be used on the track and road, but not DD. I don’t really care about sound or harshness. I just want tons of grip and very sharp turn in.

random001 > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 16:48

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Ok, that’s pretty tempting.

Luken10 > random001 09/28/2016 at 16:49

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Do you have driving experience with the Federals? There isn’t much info online regarding how they drive.

random001 > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 16:49

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If only you’d hit tire rack about 2 months ago. I got some 18" enkei rims for the winter for $108 each. That was a screaming deal.

random001 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 09/28/2016 at 16:50

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I expect to get an extra season over his REs with the PSS’.

Luken10 > finn's arm 09/28/2016 at 16:51

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I have read about the heat cycling being an issue, but to be honest at that price I don’t mind slowing down for a couple of laps to get the temps back to normal.

random001 > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 16:51

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None. I haven’t heard much of anything about them, which is the part that worries me and why I suggested the PSS’. Those I know and everyone else does, too.

Luken10 > random001 09/28/2016 at 16:52

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That’s a fantastic deal. It’s hard to get OEM used wheels for that cheap.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > random001 09/28/2016 at 16:53

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No worries, I’m not saying it’s a bad tire. I’m just saying that many of the owners who use them preach about them like they’re r-comps for the road. I may have a somewhat skewed view, because they’re very popular in the FR-S/BRZ community and most of the people who have them and praise them as the gripiest/best tire ever seem to be kids who have never actually been on track or even to an autocross (i.e. don’t know what a really grippy tire is actually like). I agree that it’s a good tire for daily driving, I just don’t think it’s the end-all-be-all of daily tires. There are a decent number of options out there that can match it, or at least come very close for a similar or lower price.

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > RyanFrew 09/28/2016 at 16:59

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R888 Proxes?

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 17:04

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In that case the PSS people have mentioned are a decent option, as are a few others in that range. Find something with reviews you like that fits your price range. I actually know a lot of people who’ve been running Federals for track/LeMons tires, because they’re a pretty grippy tire for very little money.

If you really want something that will have a lot of grip, decent life, be good in the wet, and still somewhat competitive at an autox I’d go with the Direzza ZII Star Specs. They are pricier, and probably overkill for daily driving duties depending on the car, but they have awesome grip, great response, handle the wet very well for an ultra high performance summer (many people have found them to be the best at this in that performance group), have surprisingly good life for a 200TW tire, and can still be pretty competitive in autox (although obviously they aren’t RE71Rs or Rival-S, but I wouldn’t daily either of those). I’ve been dailying on ZII* in my FR-S this entire year, probably put around 8,000 miles on them as well as about four autocross events and three track days. They still have plenty of life in them, grip like crazy, and have never been sketchy in the cold/rain, I even had it snow at my first track day and they did surprisingly well haha (RS-3s by contrast do not like the cold at all, although they do seem to have a higher heat tolerance according to most people).

Luken10 > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/28/2016 at 17:38

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Definitely good information to know, thank you! When I owned the R888's i would occasionally leave them on the car for DD duties, just because it was fun to chuck the car around or I was just being lazy. I can definitely see that happening again, so thinking about tread life is a concern.

random001 > Luken10 09/28/2016 at 19:00

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No kidding. Snagged them for winter, wish I had also bought the bronze set for 114 a wheel

random001 > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 09/28/2016 at 19:17

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Thanks. Still, I channeled a bad day, and a bad week into a stupid comment. I sucked.

I agree there are grippier tires, but I’ve yet to find a more balanced high performance tire with dry and wet traction to match. Any thoughts on specific tires?

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > random001 09/29/2016 at 00:13

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No worries, it happens. :)

ZII Star Specs, they’re what I run for a daily/track/autox tire right now. The grip is probably a bit overkill for daily driving, especially on a slow ass FR-S haha, but they do exceptionally well in the wet for an “extreme performance summer tire,” the grip/response is fantastic and they have a surprising amount of life on them. I’m at probably around 8k miles or so on them, with three track days and about four or five autox events too, and they still have plenty of life left in them. They are on the pointier end of the price scale, but still only a little under $20 more per tire than the same size PSS.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Luken10 09/29/2016 at 09:13

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All other things equal, the 17's definitely wouldnt help with the handling though either. If anything the weight could be an issue for that as well. I doubt it would make a huge difference but I imagine using a lighter set of 16's with the same tire (in the smaller size) would be better. If anything, I would consider a wider wheel rather than a larger diameter one.

daender > Luken10 09/30/2016 at 20:46

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RE-71Rs are what ALL the Miatas were running in stock class at SCCA Solo Nationals. In fact, I would 90% of all stock class entries were running it! BFG Rival S’s were popular but only a fraction of the RE-71R hype.

http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/017/476/Tire_Rack_Solo_Nationals_combined_Results_protest_pending.pdf?1474300695

Luken10 > daender 10/01/2016 at 02:32

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Good to know! I wonder how well they hold up for track days.

daender > Luken10 10/01/2016 at 07:51

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According to this Japanese ad, they’re designed for time attack. From what I’ve heard state-side from track day users is that they tend to get greasy after driving hard on them for a few laps like the Rival S. If you want constant tire behavior on track, then consider the Dunlop Z2 Star Spec.

Luken10 > daender 10/02/2016 at 11:50

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Ahhh good to know. Thanks for the info!